theblackqueen: Agh

Iverno (

theblackqueen) wrote,
@ 2008-04-17 16:16:00

Agh
I can't turn the ranty feminist off. I can't I can't I can't! It's starting to bother me, but I don't know why being a feminist has such a stigma. I shouldn't want to turn it off, but I'm starting to feel guilty for being so militant about my beliefs.
I don't know what it is... but everything is just upsetting me. Maybe it's because i know things are wrong and at the same time I don't understand why it's okay to be completely for human rights while being a feminist is a BAD WORD.
That's it, I'm frustrated.
Is the want for equal treatment for all genders truly that different than the want for equal treatment across humanity?

people need to get over themselves. FEMINIST, is not a bad word.

And I need to stop being so frustrated.

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katu
2008-04-18 01:09 am UTC (link)

Just chiming in here, I know you've not heard from me in ages, so this'll be weird coming from me...but I actually had something to say, for a change.

In my opinion, feminism has a negative connotation because of the many feminists who are not gearing for equality, but for women to be the dominating gender. In addition, many who I've met actually mocked me for wanting to be a stay at home mom when I grow up. It's what I've wanted to do my entire life, and it makes me no less of a woman just because I don't want to have a career and a stay at home husband.

I realise not all feminists are like that...but enough that that's the impression that's gotten across, at least to me. And something that is much more common is feminists, or women in general, who assume that they can do everything a man can. It's just not true. Women are naturally weaker, softer, and more emotional than men. Sure, effort makes a difference, but in some senses we'll never truly be equal, because that's just not what nature intended. There's plenty of stuff we're good at that guys aren't, and I just wish that more women would embrace our natural differences, and stop trying so hard to achieve the impossible.

That having been said, there's nothing to be ashamed of if you think you're right about your feminist feelings. Don't let other people make you feel guilty. But...by the same token, it kind of sounds like maybe you think there's something wrong. If you do, maybe some changes are in order. I don't know you well enough really to be saying this at all, so I certainly can't tell you what to do...it's just something to think about.

That was a lot longer than I intended it to be, sorry. ^_^ Just wanted to throw in my two cents.

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theblackqueen
2008-04-18 02:44 am UTC (link)

I actually had a discussion with my boyfriend about it today... how feminism is basically ruined by the people who think that being promiscuous is feminism and those who think being a butch millitant shit head about it is the only way to be.
I know many things are about balance, and I myself have been mocked by feminists because i love make up and skirts and corsets. I don't understand why some people think that in order to be a good feminist you have to look like a man. Isn't that defeating the purpose?

I also find it disturbing that I go to a womens' college and I hear so many people saying "I'm NOT a feminist." with a disgusted tone. It makes me feel like psyduck.

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	horntotingmania 2008-04-18 06:15 am UTC (link)
	Yes, balance is key! There must be a middle ground between misogyny and misandry but it often seems awfully elusive :( (Reply to this)(Parent)

katu
2008-04-19 12:22 am UTC (link)

people who think that being promiscuous is feminism
People think that? O.o That's preposterous! lol.

I also find it disturbing that I go to a womens' college and I hear so many people saying "I'm NOT a feminist." with a disgusted tone. It makes me feel like psyduck.
Psy-y-y!! But seriously, that is kind of sad. I mean, I'm certainly no feminist, but I don't so abhor the idea that I would be offended if someone thought I was. As for me, I prefer the term "gender equalist" just because it clears up all the confusion, and makes PCness-obsessed people happy. :D

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horntotingmania
2008-04-18 06:11 am UTC (link)

"Women are naturally weaker, softer, and more emotional than men."

Bullshit.

You yourself said feminists gave you shit. Women can be catty fucking bitches. More emotional? Please. Men are just as emotional; they just express it in different ways. Why do you think men get into fist fights? Somebody got emotional.

And something that is much more common is feminists, or women in general, who assume that they can do everything a man can. It's just not true.

Well, if you're saying that men are naturally physically stronger, then I'd agree. But given your belief that women are somehow delicate butterflies in comparison to big, strong men I'm gonna assume that you also mean other things as well. Care to elaborate?

"but in some senses we'll never truly be equal, because that's just not what nature intended."
Wtf does this even mean. Feminists (and I'm not talking radical feminists) want social equality, something that can easily be achieved if idiots just get over the institutionalized backwardness that really makes no logical sense. I don't see any feminists whining that mother nature made them naturally weaker but I do see a lot of fools arguing that somehow physical strength means that men should "naturally" dominate.

It's what I've wanted to do my entire life, and it makes me no less of a woman just because I don't want to have a career and a stay at home husband.
Nobody would say that you are "less of a woman" for wanting to do this. They'd say you're a lazy woman.

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	katu 2008-04-19 12:18 am UTC (link)
	Well someone's a feminist, lol. ^_^ Don't take things so seriously, especially not things that a total stranger said on the internet! I'll have my opinion and you'll have yours. That's all. ^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	katu 2008-04-19 12:26 am UTC (link)
	And coincidentally, when I say "someone's a feminist," I don't intend offense. It kind of sounds like I'm implying your feminism is bad, and what I actually meant was just that if you were offended, it was likely that you're a feminist. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	horntotingmania 2008-04-19 02:39 am UTC (link)
	On the one hand, I can admire that you didn't respond to my bait and get butthurt. On the other hand, I'm sad that you didn't respond to my arguments. Anyway, I hope I proved my point about women not being soft by way of example :D (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

katu
2008-04-19 04:30 am UTC (link)

I was thinking about responding, but the bit about "But given your belief that women are somehow delicate butterflies etc..." kind of gave me the impression that you'd had your mind made up about how I felt and I wasn't going to convince you otherwise. :P

But I'll elaborate if you'd like.

I think you took me a little less literally than I intended. When I said that women are weaker and softer, I meant that women aren't as physically strong, and have a subcutaneous layer of fat that men lack. :P And while men and women do have the same potential for emotions, most men are raised with the idea that they can't be emotional like women, and therefore have a lifetime of training (sometimes) to hide their emotions. If it's our actions that define us, then women are more emotional than men. :P

In addition, the "we'll never be equal in some respects" was just what I said: men can't have babies, women can't pee standing up, etc etc. Of course, I can't say I mean it in an entirely esoteric manner...if you take a man and woman of the same size and have them undergo the same upbringing, diet, training, etc, the man will still be stronger than the woman at the end of the day.

I don't see any feminists whining that mother nature made them naturally weaker
No, because most of them deny the fact. lol. But you're right, there are plenty of chauvinist assholes out there.

Finally, about your last comment (the "lazy woman" one :P), I hope you didn't mean that not having a career and a stay-at-home-husband was lazy...because then I know a LOT of lazy people. I assume you just mean being a stay-at-home mom? And then, I also assume you're not a mother, lmao. :P

Not that I am a mother, mind you. But I do know how much work it is, especially with four kids (I'm the oldest), and you really can't be lazy if you plan to be a homemaker.

Of course, when it comes down to it, I hope you just said that because you were angry. ^_^

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horntotingmania
2008-04-20 06:02 am UTC (link)

Honestly, I don't know why you would bring up the physical strength thing in an argument about equality. I really don't see why it would have any bearing on social equality, especially since it is most often brought up by chauvinists. So when you said women should "stop trying so hard to achieve the impossible," you only meant that women will never be able to, I dunno, pick up heavy things as well as men can?

The reason that feminists care so much about achievement is that before there was a movement, women were always told it was useless to try to achieve higher positions, impossible to be more competant than a man. Feminism has been a constant struggle in this country and because of feminists, women are now able to achieve what used to seem impossible.

The stay at home mom thing: Of course, I do know how hard it is to be a homemaker because I have a mother. She actually worked at home for the first few years after my brother and I were born but she got bored and went back to work :D You may know a lot of stay at home moms, but they are no longer the majority in America. The majority can now take care of the home AND have jobs, even without having a "stay at home dad," as you derisively stated before. So yeah, in comparison with working mothers who juggle two worlds, the stay at homers seem lazy.

Plus, it just seems very selfish to want to stay at home. I guess you assume that you'll be able to find a husband who will make enough and work hard enough to support himself, you, and a brood of kids? Is welfare gonna be involved? Because that sounds tough as hell for one guy to do. If you find a wonderful man who doesn't make enough to support you, would you marry him? What if he didn't want you to stay at home- what if he resented it? And then there's college, which has become as vital as a high school diploma was a few decades ago. It really does sound like you'd be a good mom. What if your kid blossomed, was all around amazing, and his or her greatest wish was to go to (a ludicrously expensive school like) Harvard? Even just working part time while the kids are at school would allow you to save up for the college expenses. One of the biggest gifts you can ever give your kid is allowing them to not be saddled with college debt D:

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katu
2008-04-20 06:07 pm UTC (link)

Ah, so you only wanted me to elaborate because you wanted to argue more. Well, I hardly think that someone else's journal is the place for this, and really it's a pointless endeavour in any case.

You'll never change my mind, and I won't change yours. And frankly, I'm far past the point where I feel the need to justify and further explain my beliefs to some random person on the internet. So you can keep your misconceptions about who I am and what I believe just the way they are, and get just as angry about them as you please, and I will probably never run into you again.

See ya.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	horntotingmania 2008-04-20 11:21 pm UTC (link)
	lol (Reply to this)(Parent)

	horntotingmania 2008-04-20 06:08 am UTC (link)
	Ohh, and just because men try to hide their emotions doesn't mean they are any less emotional and it certainly doesn't mean that their actions are affected less by emotion. They're not robots. Emotions affect everything we do! (Reply to this)(Parent)

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